Phil and Bill Talk Immigration Policy

December 20, 2023

SEASON 3, EPISODE 7: In a bonus episode, Governors Bredesen and Haslam share their own views on immigration.

From controlling the border to dealing with illegal immigrants already in the country, work visas, and humanitarian borders, immigration is one of the most divisive – and nuanced – challenges facing the country today. In this bonus episode, former Tennessee Governors Phil Bredesen and Bill Haslam share their own views on immigration, modeling the type of civil debate that “You Might Be Right” seeks to foster.

“This issue really has been weaponized by both sides”

The governors opened the conversation with an acknowledgment that discussing immigration policy is challenging.  “First of all, I think we have to recognize the extent to which this issue really has been weaponized by both sides,” Governor Bredesen said. “If you could turn the clock back 25 years, people had a much less ideological view of the issue. Second of all, I think there are some very different issues that are lumped under the term immigration, everything from what we should do about college graduates from China versus what we should do about refugees from Nicaragua. They’re different questions.”

Governor Haslam agreed, noting, “Both sides make money off of this…there’s not a lot of motivation for anybody to actually solve the problem because A) it’s complex and requires compromise; B) some people are making a pretty good living off of it right now.”

“We can start to have a lot less porous border”

On border security, the governors agreed that the border should be controlled in a humane way but acknowledged a difference in perspective. “I agree with you, we need to control our borders and we can have a discussion about where should immigrants come from and what qualifications should they have and so on,” said Governor Bredesen. “But without solving the problem of people who are already here and the DACA [Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals] kids and some of those people, I think we will never make any progress.”

Governor Haslam responded, “Fair point. But I guess I would argue I’d take the other approach. I think there’s a lot of people that aren’t going to have that discussion about the people that are already here until we do something to protect the border.” What might that look like? “If we think seriously about using technology, physical restrictions, and manpower in the right ways, and show we really are serious about not just letting people come into our country when they want to without going through a process, I think we can start to have a lot less porous border.”

“Being in that helicopter completely changed my approach”

The governors ended their conversation with the same question they have asked of their guests – to share a “you might be right” moment about a time when they changed their mind on an issue, in the spirit of the podcast.

Governor Bredesen recalled a particularly transformative experience he had while in office, of being in a military helicopter patrolling the border and seeing a group of immigrants running in a canyon, trying to hide. “Being in that helicopter just sort of completely changed my approach to the thing, and it became much less technical and much more about having a feeling of empathy for the lives of these people who were seeking to come here,” he said.

Governor Haslam pointed to the conversation about border security in his response. “I used to be frustrated with the idea of well, who can build the wall, who can build it higher, etcetera,” he said. “I thought that just all feels so political. And I still think a lot of the language around that is purely used for political purposes, but I have become more convinced that we really do have to have a border that’s real. If we don’t have that, I don’t know how we actually define our country.”